From usenet.ucs.indiana.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!usc!sdd.hp.com!mips!bridge2!buila.NSD.3Com.COM!msi Wed Jul 15 15:21:06 EST 1992 Article: 841 of comp.sys.mac.comm Path: usenet.ucs.indiana.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!usc!sdd.hp.com!mips!bridge2!buila.NSD.3Com.COM!msi From: msi@ESD.3Com.COM (Mark Isfeld) Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.comm Subject: Re: SLIP, MacTCP, et al [Q] Message-ID: Date: 15 Jul 92 17:32:20 GMT References: <1992Jul13.070449.9733@cs.uri.edu> <-130792112508@microlab16.med.upenn.edu> <1992Jul14.225712.11110@mdd.comm.mot.com> Sender: news@bridge2.NSD.3Com.COM Lines: 388 Nntp-Posting-Host: buila.nsd.3com.com gustilo@pop-server.upenn.edu writes: >In article <1992Jul14.225712.11110@mdd.comm.mot.com>, >bradley@mdd.comm.mot.com (Michael Bradley) wrote: >> >> Interesting and helpful but no Mac software. Gobs of Sun stuff. >> Michael Bradley >The only public domain software that I know of that will do SLIP out of the >box is NCSA/BYU Telnet 2.5 available via anon FTP from ftp.ncsa.uiuc.edu in >the directory: >Mac/Telnet >-rw-r--r-- 1 root 1 355 Jul 14 02:01 .index >-rwxr-xr-x 1 root wheel 203 Dec 7 1991 .message >-rwxr-xr-x 1 root wheel 1110 Sep 3 1991 INDEX >-rwxr-xr-x 1 root wheel 1518 Jul 13 14:38 README >drwxr-xr-x 2 root wheel 512 Jul 14 02:02 Telnet2.4.02 >drwxr-xr-x 2 root 1 512 Jul 14 02:02 Telnet2.4.02docs >drwxr-xr-x 2 root 1 512 Jul 14 02:02 Telnet2.5 >drwxr-xr-x 2 root 1 512 Jul 14 02:02 Telnet2.5beta >drwxr-xr-x 2 root 1 512 Jul 14 02:02 Telnet2.5docs >drwxr-xr-x 5 root wheel 512 Jul 14 02:02 contributions >Get Telnet2.5, it seems to be a more stable version than the beta. >There are commercial tools for doing SLIP that was on a recent thread in >this newsgroup. Here is some information about commercial SLIP implementations. These implementations support MacTcp, and therefore most MacTcp programs. I have used both with NCSA Telnet, MacX, Xferit, Eudora, and I've heard The News, and Newsreader work also. There are no free or shareware SLIP implementations that support MacTcp apps. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ***Here is some information About Slip. Most of it is from previous messages that were sent to comp.sys.mac.comm. I resend them without permission, with added comments where I have additional input. Such comments are preceeded with stars like this paragraph. Path: bridge2!mips!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!moe.ksu.ksu.edu!ux1.cso.uiuc.edu!news.cso.uiuc.edu!pequod.cso.uiuc.edu!dorner From: dorner@pequod.cso.uiuc.edu (Steve Dorner) Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.comm Subject: MacSLIP and VersaTerm SLIP, a Mini-Review Message-ID: <1992May8.141623.12294@news.cso.uiuc.edu> Date: 8 May 92 14:16:23 GMT Sender: usenet@news.cso.uiuc.edu (Net Noise owner) Reply-To: s-dorner@uiuc.edu (Steve Dorner) Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign Lines: 167 INTRODUCTION After a long wait, I've finally seen two SLIP LAP's for MacTCP. One is MacSLIP by Rick Watson, and the other is VersaTerm SLIP by Lonnie Abelbeck. The former is yet to be released, while the latter is available by purchasing or upgrading the VersaTerm terminal emulator. *** MacSlip is now released. See the announcement after this message. Before I go on to compare the two products, I want to give you the good news. Both products are easy to install and setup, and both work just fine. You're unlikely to go wrong with either product. While the products are quite different, most of the differences are matters of taste rather than function. I've been using MacSLIP for a couple of months. I find it quite nice for Eudora, Fetch, and the like. My modems (2400 baud MNP-5) are too slow for SLIP to be useful for terminal emulation, at least with my dialins, which don't do compressed SLIP. I've only used VersaTerm SLIP a few times, though I plan an extended test sometime soon. I've encountered no problems with it in my limited testing. *** I have used Versaterm Slip a lot. I had problems with the transmit timer. I recomend you turn it off by setting it to 0. Otherwise it works great. WHAT IS a "MacTCP SLIP LAP"? It's an extension that allows MacTCP to work over a phone line, allowing you to use any MacTCP application over your modem, if you have the right dialins. INSTALLATION MacSLIP consists of two parts. The SLIP LAP itself, a CDEV (slipcdev) that's used to configure the LAP. To install, you drag the LAP and the CDEV onto your system folder (system 7). It also comes with a NetStat application that's useful if you like looking at TCP statistics. VersaTerm SLIP consists of three parts. There is the SLIP LAP, a CDEV with no user configuration items in it, and an application (VersaTerm AdminSLIP) that does the configuration. These various pieces are all installed by an installer script, which also installs MacTCP. Of course, there's other stuff with VersaTerm SLIP, too, like VersaTerm :-). Comment: I didn't like the fact that VersaTerm SLIP installer installs its own copy of MacTCP; I think I'd rather drag the files by hand (which is possible). CONFIGURATION Once you've installed either product, you reboot. Then you open the MacTCP control panel, and select the LAP you want. MacSLIP gives you just one choice, "SLIP". VersaTerm SLIP presents you with three different LAP's: "SLIP (Modem)", "SLIP (Printer)", and "SLIP (Other)". If you choose "SLIP (Other)", you may specify the port in the VersaTerm AdminSLIP application. *** this is not true for the software I tested. It had only one SLIP choice, you pick the serial port in the AdminSlip App. You then configure MacTCP properly for your SLIP connection. Either product allows you to use Server or Manual addressing. Another reboot is done after you configure MacTCP. To finish configuring MacSLIP, you open the slipcdev CDEV, where you can set the serial port parameters, MTU, compression, logging and script options. The latter three are most interesting. MacSLIP has three settings for CSLIP (compressed slip); Never, Automatic, and Always. Never means it will not use compressed SLIP, and always means it will. "Automatic" means that MacSLIP will use compressed SLIP if it receives a compressed packet from the other end. MacSLIP allows you to log the execution of your scripts, as well as the opening and closing of the SLIP LAP. This has proven to be very useful. *** Versaterm Slip on the other hand has a simple terminal emulator which allows you to see what happened during the Login Script. You can then continue interactively, something that MacSlip does not support. On the other hand MacSlip's scripting facility is vastly superior to Versaterm's facility Finally, MacSLIP has a pretty reasonable scripting language built into it, with variables, loops, timers, subroutines, etc. It's hard to imagine a dialin situation it couldn't handle. On the other hand, it does take a little work to write a script. VersaTerm SLIP takes a different approach. It has several several configuration screens. The inital screen lets you select a setup (you can have different named setups). A button takes you to the configuration screen for the setup you've selected. This next screen lets you specify serial port settings, phone number, MTU, Compression, and to override some MacTCP parameters. Compression is either on or off; there is no "Automatic" setting. It also contains a button for configuring a modem, and one for a script. The modem configuration allows you to specify some strings to be sent to your modem before the connection is attempted, and has a list of modems with preset strings. The script configuration allows you to write simple scripts. The idea is that you send something, then wait some period of time for some other string to appear, then send something else, etc.. One interesting feature is that you can have the script read your IP address from the text sent you by your dialin host; this would be useful for dialins where your IP address varies from one connection to the next. *** This feature is required for SLIP servers that assign the IP address dynamically (either they pick it from a list or it is determined by which modem in a telephone rotary you happen to get), and the SLIP server does not support BOOTP. *** this feature is important to me. It turns out that MacSlip now supports this function. The current version has an odd bug, but the readme file explains what you need to do to get this to work. I use it and its fine Comments: The configuration process for VersaTerm SLIP is pretty involved, with many screens and subscreens. I found it a little confusing to navigate. On the plus side, most of the screens are pretty easy to handle, and it's not hard to get things up and running. *** In my opinion Versaterm is oriented to the casual user. I found it easier to set it up and get it running because there was no learning of a scripting language involved, and the interactive terminal emulator allowed me to step through the process and determine what strings to wait for etc. In other words Versaterm is designed for NON-programmers. On the other hand the connection scripts are VERY limited and cannot handle more than about 4(or 5) steps. This was Just enough for me. The configuration of MacSLIP is much more concentrated, and to my mind less confusing. However, you do have to write a connection script, which may be daunting for some users. The author tells me that he will be providing some sample scripts which many users will be able to use more or less as is. *** also there is not facility to step through the process manually. You can do it with BUY/NCSA Telnet 2.4.19 (and I think NCSA Telnet 2.5). It should be noted that neither package requires you to use a script; you can setup your SLIP connection with a terminal emulator, and then switch on SLIP. VersaTerm SLIP even includes a mini-emulator right in the VersaTerm AdminSLIP application. This is fine for casual use, but I'd recommend getting a script going as soon as possible. USE As I said before, both packages work fine. I have only 2400 baud MNP-5 modems, so performance for me wasn't great. Here are some quick benchmarks, done on my Q700, with Multitech 224E modem into a Cisco terminal server (which does not do compressed SLIP): MacSLIP VersaTerm SLIP Fetch 45K MacBinaryII Upload: 161 cps 219 cps Fetch 45K MacBinaryII Download: 308 cps 216 cps PLEASE: these were all single runs; I'm not sure they mean much of anything. MacSLIP was using an MTU of 1500, whereas VersaTerm SLIP an MTU of 1006 (the largest it allows). *** Versaterm Slip now allows 1500 byte MTU sizes. The poor performance of Versaterm Slip download can be improved by setting the retransmit timer to 0. My experience (including line traces) indicates that Versaterm Slip deleted acknowledges when the timer is non-zero. I consider this a bug but they author isn't interested in fixing this since a new version of MacTcp should make this timer unneccessary. On the other hand the superior upload perforamance is probably due to this timer. With the timer set to zero, I find that downloads (and therfore most interactive things MacX especially) are about 10-20% slower in MacSlip for reasons I have not uncovered yet. Both of these packages are a joy to use with Eudora. If you've ever had trouble with corrupt attachments over modems, you want one of these. *** Strongly agreed. Given the relative wimp factor of my modems, I find SLIP unacceptable for interactive use (eg, NCSA Telnet). However, at higher speeds they should work just fine. *** Given my 14,400 Baud SupraFax, I find interactive performance relatively good. I use compression, so the total round trip time is quite high. This means that character echo is about one second, but typeahead works well, and screen redraws go quickly. I use MacX with SLIP and find the performance quite acceptable. CONCLUSIONS Either package will serve you well. VersaTerm SLIP is available now, bundled with VersaTerm; if you need a terminal emulator and the other goodies that come with VersaTerm, you could do much worse than to buy it. *** I really like the FTP SERVER. It is a CDev, and I leave it running on my MAC at work. Then I can FTP file directly from my home MAC to/from my work MAC. MacSLIP is not yet available; release is planned for the end of May. People with complicated dialins, or wishing to try multiple phone numbers automatically, may prefer MacSLIP on that basis. I'm also very fond of MacSLIP's log, which has been helpful in tracking problems on our dialin modems. *** MacSlip is avialble.... see announcement later on... PRICING VersaTerm SLIP comes with VersaTerm 4.6.2, which goes for about $90 mail-order, and includes an FTP server and client, MacTCP, a Telnet connection tool, and a time server and client. Educational institutions are eligible for a reduced price arrangement. *** Many vendors only track the first two numbers IE 4.6 . You may end up buying 4.6.1 which does not have SLIP. Just call then up and they will send you an updated floppy, for no charge, via US Mail. You should allow an extra week for this though. MacSLIP is $49.95. Site licenses will be available for a reasonable price. Contact macslip@utexas.edu for more information. *** No longer true. Send info requests to info@hydepark.com . Also see attached announcement. DISCLAIMERS I have no financial interest in either product. *** Nor do I. This review is not intended to be The Last Word on anything; it's just some thoughts based on my limited experience with the two products. More could be said about either one. *** Ditto. SLIP is of limited utility unless you have something to SLIP with. Before you invest in SLIP, be sure your friendly neighborhood dialins support it. -- Steve Dorner, U of Illinois Computing Services Office Internet: s-dorner@uiuc.edu UUCP: uunet!uiucuxc!uiuc.edu!s-dorner *** Mark Isfeld msi@nsd.3com.com Path: bridge2!mips!darwin.sura.net!europa.asd.contel.com!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!ut-emx!rick From: rick@ut-emx.uucp (Rick Watson) Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.comm Subject: Announcing MacSLIP Message-ID: <71906@ut-emx.uucp> Date: 9 May 92 16:00:21 GMT Organization: The University of Texas at Austin, Austin, Texas Lines: 71 Hyde Park Software is pleased to announce the availability of MacSLIP -- a SLIP Link Access Protocol Module for MacTCP. MacSLIP allows you to extend the network connectivity of your Macintosh to locations that might not be accessible to a LocalTalk or Ethernet network via a modem connection over the telephone or a hardwired connection to a SLIP Server. SLIP (Serial Line IP) is a protocol that allows many simultaneous IP connections to run over a single serial connection to a SLIP Server (a terminal server or other host that supports SLIP). Instead of running a single terminal emulator session over your serial port, MacSLIP allows you to run simultaneous Telnet, FTP, News, Mail, and other MacTCP based applications. You can even run XWindows although XWindow based applications tend to require lots of bandwidth. MacSLIP supports normal SLIP connections as well as connections that allow TCP Header Compression (CSLIP). TCP Header Compression is a method for compressing the headers of TCP/IP datagrams to improve performance over relatively slow serial lines. Not all SLIP Servers support CSLIP but MacSLIP will work either way. MacSLIP's connection script facility allows automated modem dialing, logging into a SLIP Server, establishing a SLIP session, etc. The script facility will write a log of the connection process for easy debugging of your script. Sample scripts are provided. During the connection, a script status dialog appears to notify the user of the progress of the connection. The script can write messages to a status area and can prompt the user for passwords or connection data. The incoming character stream from the serial port is also displayed. The script facility supports sending strings, matching strings read from the serial port to control script execution, simple counters, timers, loops, prompting for user input, and a status dialog to inform the user of the script's progress. You can configure your Mac to use a static IP address or you can get an IP address from your SLIP Server via the bootp protocol. *** You can also parse incoming text during the connect process to determine your IP Address Netmask etc. Included in the package is Netstat, an application designed for monitoring TCP connections to your Macintosh. Netstat displays all open TCP connections' source and destination IP addresses, TCP ports, and connection state. You can view all the internal counters that MacTCP keeps for each connection as well as global MacTCP and MacSLIP counters. Requirements: - Any Macintosh running System 7 or a Mac-II class Mac running System 6.0.7. *** A version that supports system 6 on non-MacII class machines is in testing - MacTCP 1.1 (or MacTCP 1.1+ for a Mac Plus) - A serial connection to a SLIP Server via modem or hardwired connection. Availability: We will begin taking orders immediately (Mon-Fri 8-5 CDT) with shipping scheduled to begin the week of May 25. Sales and support are being provided by *** Currently shipping. Allow about a week for shipping via ground UPS. They take about 2-3days to ship the product, then shipping time They accept phone credit card orders. TriSoft 1825 East 38 1/2 Austin, Texas 78722 Sales: (800) 531-5170 Support and Info: (512) 472-0744 FAX: (512) 473-2122 Individual copies are $49.95 + shipping + sales tax if applicable. Questions about MacSLIP and other pricing may also be sent to: info@hydepark.com Rick Watson Hyde Park Software ** additional comments by Mark isfeld msi@nsd.3com.com *** This is sent out as information only. I don't have any special relationship with either party. ***** Also Intercon is about to Announce a SLIP implementation. I have not seen it, since it has not been announced. However, I have rumors thata it is being shown at the Mactivity Show right now! (7/15/92) Pricing and availability unknown. -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- | Mark Isfeld | msi@NSD.3Com.com | 408-764-5167 From bronze!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!moe.ksu.ksu.edu!ux1.cso.uiuc.edu!news.cso.uiuc.edu!pequod.cso.uiuc.edu!dorner Fri May 8 22:19:20 EST 1992 Article: 11026 of comp.sys.mac.comm Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.comm Path: bronze!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!moe.ksu.ksu.edu!ux1.cso.uiuc.edu!news.cso.uiuc.edu!pequod.cso.uiuc.edu!dorner From: dorner@pequod.cso.uiuc.edu (Steve Dorner) Subject: MacSLIP and VersaTerm SLIP, a Mini-Review Message-ID: <1992May8.141623.12294@news.cso.uiuc.edu> Sender: usenet@news.cso.uiuc.edu (Net Noise owner) Reply-To: s-dorner@uiuc.edu (Steve Dorner) Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign Date: Fri, 8 May 1992 14:16:23 GMT Lines: 167 Status: R INTRODUCTION After a long wait, I've finally seen two SLIP LAP's for MacTCP. One is MacSLIP by Rick Watson, and the other is VersaTerm SLIP by Lonnie Abelbeck. The former is yet to be released, while the latter is available by purchasing or upgrading the VersaTerm terminal emulator. Before I go on to compare the two products, I want to give you the good news. Both products are easy to install and setup, and both work just fine. You're unlikely to go wrong with either product. While the products are quite different, most of the differences are matters of taste rather than function. I've been using MacSLIP for a couple of months. I find it quite nice for Eudora, Fetch, and the like. My modems (2400 baud MNP-5) are too slow for SLIP to be useful for terminal emulation, at least with my dialins, which don't do compressed SLIP. I've only used VersaTerm SLIP a few times, though I plan an extended test sometime soon. I've encountered no problems with it in my limited testing. WHAT IS a "MacTCP SLIP LAP"? It's an extension that allows MacTCP to work over a phone line, allowing you to use any MacTCP application over your modem, if you have the right dialins. INSTALLATION MacSLIP consists of two parts. The SLIP LAP itself, a CDEV (slipcdev) that's used to configure the LAP. To install, you drag the LAP and the CDEV onto your system folder (system 7). It also comes with a NetStat application that's useful if you like looking at TCP statistics. VersaTerm SLIP consists of three parts. There is the SLIP LAP, a CDEV with no user configuration items in it, and an application (VersaTerm AdminSLIP) that does the configuration. These various pieces are all installed by an installer script, which also installs MacTCP. Of course, there's other stuff with VersaTerm SLIP, too, like VersaTerm :-). Comment: I didn't like the fact that VersaTerm SLIP installer installs its own copy of MacTCP; I think I'd rather drag the files by hand (which is possible). CONFIGURATION Once you've installed either product, you reboot. Then you open the MacTCP control panel, and select the LAP you want. MacSLIP gives you just one choice, "SLIP". VersaTerm SLIP presents you with three different LAP's: "SLIP (Modem)", "SLIP (Printer)", and "SLIP (Other)". If you choose "SLIP (Other)", you may specify the port in the VersaTerm AdminSLIP application. You then configure MacTCP properly for your SLIP connection. Either product allows you to use Server or Manual addressing. Another reboot is done after you configure MacTCP. To finish configuring MacSLIP, you open the slipcdev CDEV, where you can set the serial port parameters, MTU, compression, logging and script options. The latter three are most interesting. MacSLIP has three settings for CSLIP (compressed slip); Never, Automatic, and Always. Never means it will not use compressed SLIP, and always means it will. "Automatic" means that MacSLIP will use compressed SLIP if it receives a compressed packet from the other end. MacSLIP allows you to log the execution of your scripts, as well as the opening and closing of the SLIP LAP. This has proven to be very useful. Finally, MacSLIP has a pretty reasonable scripting language built into it, with variables, loops, timers, subroutines, etc. It's hard to imagine a dialin situation it couldn't handle. On the other hand, it does take a little work to write a script. VersaTerm SLIP takes a different approach. It has several several configuration screens. The inital screen lets you select a setup (you can have different named setups). A button takes you to the configuration screen for the setup you've selected. This next screen lets you specify serial port settings, phone number, MTU, Compression, and to override some MacTCP parameters. Compression is either on or off; there is no "Automatic" setting. It also contains a button for configuring a modem, and one for a script. The modem configuration allows you to specify some strings to be sent to your modem before the connection is attempted, and has a list of modems with preset strings. The script configuration allows you to write simple scripts. The idea is that you send something, then wait some period of time for some other string to appear, then send something else, etc.. One interesting feature is that you can have the script read your IP address from the text sent you by your dialin host; this would be useful for dialins where your IP address varies from one connection to the next. Comments: The configuration process for VersaTerm SLIP is pretty involved, with many screens and subscreens. I found it a little confusing to navigate. On the plus side, most of the screens are pretty easy to handle, and it's not hard to get things up and running. The configuration of MacSLIP is much more concentrated, and to my mind less confusing. However, you do have to write a connection script, which may be daunting for some users. The author tells me that he will be providing some sample scripts which many users will be able to use more or less as is. It should be noted that neither package requires you to use a script; you can setup your SLIP connection with a terminal emulator, and then switch on SLIP. VersaTerm SLIP even includes a mini-emulator right in the VersaTerm AdminSLIP application. This is fine for casual use, but I'd recommend getting a script going as soon as possible. USE As I said before, both packages work fine. I have only 2400 baud MNP-5 modems, so performance for me wasn't great. Here are some quick benchmarks, done on my Q700, with Multitech 224E modem into a Cisco terminal server (which does not do compressed SLIP): MacSLIP VersaTerm SLIP Fetch 45K MacBinaryII Upload: 161 cps 219 cps Fetch 45K MacBinaryII Download: 308 cps 216 cps PLEASE: these were all single runs; I'm not sure they mean much of anything. MacSLIP was using an MTU of 1500, whereas VersaTerm SLIP an MTU of 1006 (the largest it allows). Both of these packages are a joy to use with Eudora. If you've ever had trouble with corrupt attachments over modems, you want one of these. Given the relative wimp factor of my modems, I find SLIP unacceptable for interactive use (eg, NCSA Telnet). However, at higher speeds they should work just fine. CONCLUSIONS Either package will serve you well. VersaTerm SLIP is available now, bundled with VersaTerm; if you need a terminal emulator and the other goodies that come with VersaTerm, you could do much worse than to buy it. MacSLIP is not yet available; release is planned for the end of May. People with complicated dialins, or wishing to try multiple phone numbers automatically, may prefer MacSLIP on that basis. I'm also very fond of MacSLIP's log, which has been helpful in tracking problems on our dialin modems. PRICING VersaTerm SLIP comes with VersaTerm 4.6.2, which goes for about $90 mail-order, and includes an FTP server and client, MacTCP, a Telnet connection tool, and a time server and client. Educational institutions are eligible for a reduced price arrangement. MacSLIP is $49.95. Site licenses will be available for a reasonable price. Contact macslip@utexas.edu for more information. DISCLAIMERS I have no financial interest in either product. This review is not intended to be The Last Word on anything; it's just some thoughts based on my limited experience with the two products. More could be said about either one. SLIP is of limited utility unless you have something to SLIP with. Before you invest in SLIP, be sure your friendly neighborhood dialins support it. -- Steve Dorner, U of Illinois Computing Services Office Internet: s-dorner@uiuc.edu UUCP: uunet!uiucuxc!uiuc.edu!s-dorner